Topsy-Turvy's Treatment of The Mikado

[r***@yahoo.com]

The film surprised me by showing a solemnly respectful interpretation
of Japanese culture on the part of Gilbert and Sullivan. I had always
assumed it to be more cariacturististic. Is this something we've done
to G&S in general or should I change my worldview?

[David Lawver]

Post by r***@yahoo.com
The film surprised me by showing a solemnly respectful interpretation
of Japanese culture on the part of Gilbert and Sullivan. I had always
assumed it to be more cariacturististic. Is this something we've done
to G&S in general or should I change my worldview?

From a 2006 Guardian article by Mike Leigh:
http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,1938719,00.html

If these shows have fallen into disrepute over the years, it is because
directors have failed to understand their raw edge. This results in
boring, bland, sentimental, self-conscious, often gratuitously camp
productions, which entirely miss the point.

What, then, is "Gilbertian"? The word has been in the English language
for over a century, and to understand it we need to analyse the
stylistic alchemy of Gilbert's art as a dramatist. His genius is to fuse
opposites with an imperceptible sleight of hand, to blend the surreal
with the real, and the caricature with the natural. In other words, to
tell a perfectly outrageous story in a completely deadpan way...

But he was also a master of theatrical naturalism...

Gilbert belonged to a small group of dramatists who reacted against the
undisciplined melodramatic mess of the earlier Victorian theatre... One
of these was Tom Robertson, who was a major influence on Gilbert in two
ways. As a dramatist, his so-called "cup-and-saucer" plays such as Ours
(1866) and Caste (1867) depicted the world in a new, fresh, realistic
way; and as a director (or stage-manager, as they called it in those
days), he introduced Gilbert both to the revolutionary notion of
disciplined rehearsals and to mise-en-scène or unity of style in the
whole presentation - direction, design, music, acting.

[Eagle]

Post by David Lawver
Gilbert belonged to a small group of dramatists who reacted against the
undisciplined melodramatic mess of the earlier Victorian theatre...

It's a plan of mine in my old age to finally get around to reading
Gilbert's non-musical plays, of which he wrote dozens.

[a***@hotmail.com]

Post by Eagle

Post by David Lawver
Gilbert belonged to a small group of dramatists who reacted against the
undisciplined melodramatic mess of the earlier Victorian theatre...

It's a plan of mine in my old age to finally get around to reading
Gilbert's non-musical plays, of which he wrote dozens.

Really excellent: "Engaged" which is occasionally revived (people
often try to set it to music with Sullivan tunes) -- quite ruthless
and VERY funny. (Clearly Oscar Wilde knew it well.)
Good but too preposterous to stage today: "Foggerty's Fairy."
(No one remembers fairy dramas or commedia dell'arte in the Anglophone
world, so parodies of such things won't work.)
"Rosencrantz and Guildenstern" -- Rosencrantz and Ophelia are in love
and desperate to get rid of Hamlet -- they succeed! It turns out
Claudius is a frustrated playwright and they find a suppressed verse
tragedy of his.....

Those are the best.
There are also the verse tragedies ("Pygmalion and Galatea") and
comedies ("The Palace of Truth") and a couple of operettas with other
composers ("The Mountebanks.")

The really serious verse tragedies ("The Isle of Broken Hearts") will
explain to you more clearly than anything else why the post-Victorians
were so desperate to get away from their Victorian past. That so
cynical a wit as Gilbert could come up with such tripe and believe it
good is very painful.

Jean Coeur de Lapin

[a***@hotmail.com]

Post by a***@hotmail.com

Post by Eagle

Post by David Lawver
Gilbert belonged to a small group of dramatists who reacted against the
undisciplined melodramatic mess of the earlier Victorian theatre...

It's a plan of mine in my old age to finally get around to reading
Gilbert's non-musical plays, of which he wrote dozens.

Really excellent: "Engaged" which is occasionally revived (people
often try to set it to music with Sullivan tunes) -- quite ruthless
and VERY funny. (Clearly Oscar Wilde knew it well.)
Good but too preposterous to stage today: "Foggerty's Fairy."
(No one remembers fairy dramas or commedia dell'arte in the Anglophone
world, so parodies of such things won't work.)
"Rosencrantz and Guildenstern" -- Rosencrantz and Ophelia are in love
and desperate to get rid of Hamlet -- they succeed! It turns out
Claudius is a frustrated playwright and they find a suppressed verse
tragedy of his.....
Those are the best.
There are also the verse tragedies ("Pygmalion and Galatea") and
comedies ("The Palace of Truth") and a couple of operettas with other
composers ("The Mountebanks.")
The really serious verse tragedies ("The Isle of Broken Hearts") will
explain to you more clearly than anything else why the post-Victorians
were so desperate to get away from their Victorian past. That so
cynical a wit as Gilbert could come up with such tripe and believe it
good is very painful.
Jean Coeur de Lapin

P.S. My favorite line from Foggerty's Fairy: the heroine, an heiress,
upends the double standard -- she will only marry a man who has never
loved before. "To me a man who has loved before is like a used postage
stamp -- of interest to the collector, but to all others a thing of no
worth."

Also: Malvina: I'm generally considered a splendid ruin.
Foggerty: You are! A sprig or two of ivy and you'd be complete.

From "Rosencrantz" Ophelia: He must be mad! Though we live in Denmark
in the year 1062, he dresses as if at the court of James I. (i.e.
1603)

In "The Mountebanks," the heroine admits she doesn't think herself
attractive, but is in a hopeless minority on the question. (Shaw loved
that.)

J C de L

[chromolume]

Post by r***@yahoo.com
The film surprised me by showing a solemnly respectful interpretation
of Japanese culture on the part of Gilbert and Sullivan. I had always
assumed it to be more cariacturististic. Is this something we've done
to G&S in general or should I change my worldview?

One of the challenges of the G&S operettas is that, as satires often
do, they were written with a wink toward G&S's own contemporary world.
"Patience" takes its cues from the Britsh aesthetic movement, and if
you don't know what that was, you might have a hard time understanding
what's going on - which can make it somewhat confusing (and not quite
as funny) for a modern, American audience. Similarly, "The Mikado" was
in part a nod to the British obsession with all things Japanese.
(Remember that Japan had just opened their ports to trade with other
countries; see "Pacific Overtures" lol). But since we don't have the
"novelty" of Japanese culture as a reference point, the piece loses
its direct connection to the times, and though it still works as a
political satire, the *reason* for its Japanese setting loses
importance. So of course it can turn into what seems like a parody of
Japanese culture, instead of a parody of the new-found British love
for Japanese culture (and, as always in G&S, a satire on British
politics.)

By the way - I did a wonderful production of "Patience" some years ago
where the director, a true G&S expert (and wonderful patter baritone
as well), tried to solve the "aesthetic issue" problem for the cast,
at least, by dwelling (rightfully) on the *action* of the piece
instead of the satire itself. I'll never forget when he said at the
first rehearsal (and I paraphrase), "This piece is the story of what
happens when the Dragoons come back to claim their brides." By
focusing on the ensuing love-related mishaps, and just letting the
"poetical" part of the story play itself, the show seemed just that
more readily accessible.

[Eagle]

Post by chromolume
Similarly, "The Mikado" was
So of course it can turn into what seems like a parody of
Japanese culture, instead of a parody of the new-found British love
for Japanese culture (and, as always in G&S, a satire on British
politics.)

I don't remember if it's something Gilbert said, or someone who was
commenting on it, but I remember someone remarking in reference to THE
MIKADO that one of the best ways of satirizing (or commenting) on
something is not to do so directly, but rather indirectly by placing
the satire/commentary in a different environment, as British politics
is satirized in THE MIKADO via Japanese culture. I suppose it's in
keeping with Gilbert's advice spoken through Jack Point that one
should "gild the philosophic pill."

[r***@yahoo.com]

Post by chromolume
One of the challenges of the G&S operettas is that, as satires often
do, they were written with a wink toward G&S's own contemporary world.
"Patience" takes its cues from the Britsh aesthetic movement, and if
you don't know what that was, you might have a hard time understanding
what's going on - which can make it somewhat confusing (and not quite
as funny) for a modern, American audience. Similarly, "The Mikado" was
in part a nod to the British obsession with all things Japanese.
So of course it can turn into what seems like a parody of
Japanese culture, instead of a parody of the new-found British love
for Japanese culture (and, as always in G&S, a satire on British
politics.)

So their work can act like Lewis Caroll in that The Queen of Hearts
can yell out, "Off with his head!" on a whim?

[ElBob-O]

Post by r***@yahoo.com
The film surprised me by showing a solemnly respectful interpretation
of Japanese culture on the part of Gilbert and Sullivan. I had always
assumed it to be more cariacturististic. Is this something we've done
to G&S in general or should I change my worldview?

Topsy Turvy in general is simply too solemn and reverential. Worth
seeing -- once or twice -- but not as useful as one's own input on The
Mikado.

In a few words I'd say that the dynamic between the beauty of
Sullivan's Japan-influenced western music and the comedy value of
Gilbert's thinly disguised English caricatures is, and should be,
maddening. Look to Verdi and Donizetti for examples of situations
where seriousness is treated lightly, and you'll see that G+S are in
good company.

Also T T portrays success of Mikado as springboarding off failure of
Pricess Ida (Or: The Castle Adamant), which I rather like.